This is a really cliche thing to say, and I can't believe I'm going to, but I think if Jesus walked into a church today, he would be so pissed. I think he would be flabbergasted.
I just returned to a silly theology forum I used to play on, and they were all exchanging smarty scriptures to prove just exactly how "justification works." And ya gotta think, how many times does a man have to say "If you want to find your life, you have to lose it," before someone understands that life is not about attaining personal salvation for yourself? The world is full of grays, but I feel like that's something I can know, I can know that Jesus didn't want us to sit around worrying about how we're gonna "get saved," he didn't want that to be the driving momentum in our lives. When the disciples did that, he got so pissed at them.
Normally, when I see folks saying things like this, I just look the other way, I try to forget they exist, but this morning, they don't bother me as much. I think they don't bother me because they genuinely in no way have any authority over me at all. I feel the uselessness of their theologies, and I know my connection to something deeper and truer. I can see, like a spinning sphere beside me, the world they have created, with its thousand connections and self-contained proofs, but I have not one foot in that world.
And I wonder, do I return? with my hammer? Do I return to break them apart? If I choose to speak lovingly to them, or normatively, I don't think it would be destruction. I would want to speak in a way that draws out the beauty in them, and the good, the love. I know it is all there, every bit as much as it is in me. But I also have this secret knowledge, this knowledge that their lives are not built on what they think they are built on. Jesus and the Bible and God and all that. Their Jesus is the American one, their God is colloquial, he is a minute in time, he is in the hands of American men, that's all. I believe it would break their hearts if they knew. I also know that if I told them, they wouldn't believe me, they would cast me out as an infidel, a raving lunatic possessed by LIBERAL TEACHING. That's what happens when you step into their world, it is so heavily guarded, so patroled at its borders with threats of death and anomy.
Doesn't everyone think that making others think like them is liberation and freedom? Doesn't everyone? But I am true when I think it. Ha, yes. Oh, how do we bridge the worlds, how do we even speak to each other. Do we have any common goals that we aren't foisting on each other. How do we speak.
11 comments:
I don't have any answers for that last paragraph (I assume the absence of question marks means they were rhetorical anyway.)
But on the subject of Jesus walking among us and being pissed/flabbergasted, I have this to say.
I think all of the time about how, after the resurrection, Jesus was hanging out with people and they had no idea who he was. People who knew him well. I wonder how often that happens now.
I play music at a lot of churches. Even though I sort of despise church I always find myself inside of them walking the tightrope of my attraction to whatever it is that leads me there. When everyone prays I watch them. It is so wonderful to watch the children. Who care not for piety, or aesthetics. Who carry on with whatever they were doing before God was invoked into the room by the bowing of heads or administering of Sacraments. I look at these children and I think two things:
1. I have more in common with them than anyone else in the building.
2. I wonder if, sometimes, those kids are Jesus among us.
Do you really want them to think like you?
"How do we speak."...perhaps with grace and humility.
Clint - I agree. All the time, lately, I find myself trying to live like a kid. So many of the things we learn just make us worse off, our pleasantries, our goal-setting. Kids are the best.
Well hello there, Curt. Nice to have you.
I do my best to speak with grace and humility. Often, when I speak that way to people on this forum, they call me horrible, hurtful names and tell me to leave. This is why I probably seem a bit dismissive of, say, their deepest held convictions.
I suppose I don't want these people to think like me, but I would like them to speak with grace and humility, that is a lovely suggestion.
But how does it hit you when I say Jesus wasn't concerned with getting people saved? Is there a graceful way to say that? when it's such a fundamental part of most Christians' faith, perhaps yours also? But honestly, I think it's true, and I think it's important to recognize.
that world you speak of, the spinning sphere, scares the shit out of me. because i lived in that world. and the more i step away from it, i've found i am not accepted and i am misunderstood. maybe that's the wrong word. i'm not sure. but i know the more i run to Jesus, the more beauty and grace i've found, which had escaped that world i lived in.
Deena, that sounds so much like what I went through. It made me really bitter and defensive for a long time, actually. It is so nice not to feel bound by that world anymore. to say "You know, I think God is like this," no matter how many people in my life have said otherwise.
Thanks Jen,
im sorry you have been treated so poorly by those who claim Christ yet sound more like gongs and "cymbals...this is all too common and something that truly disturbs me.
To answer your question "how does it hit me"
I suppose it hits me as being "interesting"...which is flattering way of saying bull. then again i have yet to hear your argument...what makes you think Jesus isnt concerned about salvation? if he didnt come to seek and save the lost then what was he doing on the cross?
blessings,
Curt
It is less flattering when you explain it.
It's cool, I'm not really interested in convincing you. To explain, I spent the last couple of my for-real Christian years reading mostly the Gospel of Mark, and it reshaped the way that I understand Jesus. I think of Jesus saying (as I mentioned):
"For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it." (Mark 8:35)
And I think of all the times the disciples said "Say Josh, which of us is the greatest?" And he said "You morons. Forget yourself. It is not about yourself, not about achieving any status." And they said "What does he mean? Hey Josh, can we have the seats of honor in heaven?"
And oh, what was he doing on the cross. So much, so much. So much more than saving us.
To be honest, though, this post wasn't exegesis, it was a revelation. a personal revelation, not one from God Almighty, although what's the difference. It came after reading a lot of Hindu and Buddhist kinds of things and finding a lot of sense in them and a lot of common ground too. I have these sayings of Jesus floating around in my head, and as my life unfolds, I think, "Huh. So that's what that meant." That's what this post was. If one were to object to this method of truth-making, opting instead for strict adherence to the Bible, I would understand, but I would also wonder if the biblical authors weren't sort of doing the same thing themselves.
But bottom line, some people that I know have read these words and felt them resonate inside them, and that's the only reason I put them out in public anyway.
Jen,
Im tracking with you, thanks for starting to unpack your perspective. there is a lot here and while we might not agree on Jesus mission, i resonate with a lot of what you are saying. you are correct in saying i am arrogant, what i dont want to claim is any hidden, secret truth. I believe that the Gospel is the essence of Christianity and this is neither secret nor hidden. The passage you quote from Mark illustrates this perfectly...it says Jesus was talking plainly (32) his followers wanted it THEIR way and not God's way (33) and that salvation is worth more than anything we can attain on here on Earth (35-37)
Now what convicts me is what comes next when Jesus says he will be ashamed of anyone who is ashamed of Him.(38) Believe it or not the last part of the part of the passage is probably what best describes me.
curt
Oh, I don't think you're arrogant. Did I say you were arrogant?
You know, I wonder if it's secret. In one sense, Jesus can come right out and say what he means, say the truth about the gospel and who he is and the kingdom and all that, but there are still people who may even believe, but don't understand. Like he says in Mark 4:12, "ever seeing but never perceiving, ever hearing but never understanding." We are staring right at it, but we don't know what it means.
I think some spiritual realities are only understood through experience. You have to live a little life, do a little prayer and thinking before you start to see it. or maybe a lot of life. I do think there are treasures that come only with time. Not everything can be demonstrated with logic and arguments, you know? It's not arrogant or exclusive, it's just the nature of things. It's open to all, if we'll look for it. It's open to children, children probably perceive it more clearly than many adults do.
And I do think my life has taught me some things, some secrets. Lots of others have learned lots of other secrets from their lives, and I like to learn from them too. There is more than one secret, more than one way of making sense of the story. Sometimes, the different ways clash, like when I think Jesus was unconcerned with laying out the mechanics of salvation and other people think that's the most important thing, but that's ok. There's room to take our different roads and still learn from each other.
I was thinking about part of this post today, and figured I would write my thoughts here, instead of in a new post, because it's no big deal.
Some people somewhere said that I sounded "arrogant"for saying the things I said in that next to last paragraph, and maybe I can understand why. But what I was really grappling with in that paragraph was whether or not I want to have a stake in this community, the Christian community. I think having a stake in a community means being willing to critique it and offer constructive suggestions (obviously recognizing the limits of your own perspective at the same time). My friend, Beth, told me that she alternates daily between thinking about going into ministry and thinking about leaving the church altogether. That is sort of the decision I am thinking about. Do I want to be a reformer or do I want to let people be who they are? Being a reformer sounds so nice, but it is really hard, and sometimes, it is destructive. Probably, it is always destructive. I see things that are not right, and I have an idea of how they could be better, but sometimes, you have to tear down if you want to build up. I just don't know if I can bear to do that. Plus, it's a lot of work.
Anyway, that's all I was saying.
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