Okay so I feel like a bit of a jerk.
I honestly didnt think people were going to respond so strongly, and I was laughing the whole time I made this - because of the obsurdity of trying to address such a deep issue with a facebook group...
Now I feel that I owe it to all of you, who've put some thought into this, to respond honestly and explain what I actually feel about these issues.
When I feel the need to fight against feminism, it is in response to the "feminism" that I see on a day to day level. I wholeheartedly agree with those who fight for women's rights when those rights result in female circumcision, etc... but I do not think that this is a fight any different than fighting to rescue children from sex-trafficing, or fighting to end slavery in all parts of the world (which includes men as the victims,) or any fight which responds to injustice and the mistreatment of humanity. So I would thus not label fighting for circumcised womens' rights etc. as feminism, these fights are something completely different and they have my utmost respect and support.
Feminism, as it began, was not inherently evil. Whereas I feel very strongly that women should not be pastors or leaders of countries, I couldnt live as I do now without appreciating the fact that I do have the opportunity to go to college and study what I desire, etc.. Perhaps any argument I have against modern feminism should only be directed towards America, because this is where I live and I have experienced it - so I will therefore be referring to modern-day American feminism when I use the word "feminism" from this point on.
The feminism I have encountered has appalled me... I've had young women stand in my face and scream "how can you call yourself a woman?" merely for stating my Biblical convictions on gender roles. I've had women AND men argue passionately for hours telling me that I am close-minded and that I shouldnt call myself a Christian if I dont believe in complete "equality" among the two sexes. I never realized that by saying that women have God-given roles - in the family, the church, and the world - that I was insinuating that women are worth less as human beings or that they should be trod upon by men. If anything this type of "feminism" has spat in my face and taken my FEMINITY from me! To be told I am not a woman for having these opinions doesnt seem to go along with the whole "we're fighting so that women have the freedom to express their opinions in EVERY area of our society!"
In America today, there is no need for this form of "feminism"! Women are fighting a battle that doesnt exist, which has led to a decrease in the value of women as women and the decrease in the value of men as men. Women arent fighting to have the rights women deserve anymore, they are fighting to BE men. Well I'm sorry, we are not men and femininity is not a trait which is (in general) highly valued anymore. NO, I'm not just talking about having babies and taking care of a home, I'm talking SIMPLE BASICS that are in the very foundations of the world, in which God created woman to be DIFFERENT from man. Men have strengths and abilities that women do not, and women have strengths and abilities in areas that men do not. This is not a result of male chauvenism asserting itself as a "patriarchical society" - it is the result of our Creator!
Certainly, many of my responses on-the-fly have seemed bitter and not thought out... but the issues I am frustrated with are so deeply rooted into our culture that it's hard to even find the ground to start this argument on!
I find it frustrating that men are not "allowed" to believe in gender-specific roles in which they are placed "above" women without being called male chauvenists (I have had countless men come to me after the fact and thank me for voicing my feelings in class settings because they knew that they couldnt agree with me without being called chauvenist pigs)... and that I am not "allowed" to believe that God has given me a role as a WOman for a reason without being... well what am I? I've been told that I'm not a Christian or a woman, so I'm not really sure where that leaves me. Perhaps the feminists have come up with a new name for us non-descript "people" who see a distinct difference between male and female.
I for one, would like to be seen as a woman - not matter what roles that means I must accept. God created me as a woman for a reason... and I plan on remaining one for the rest of my life.
...I apologize for not respecting you all enough to be honest about these issues before - but here I am, and here these things are.
I am not close minded, as it has been suggested, and eagerly await your responses with respect and interest in your perspectives.
9/18/06
I agree with AJ... I find it very scary to say "what if the Bible isnt absolute truth?"
That question has far too many "ifs" in it... if you question one aspect of the Bible, what makes the rest of it true? It all becomes subjective to personal opinion and therefore invalidates the truth of God's words and the simple facts of His creation of humans and their roles from the very beginning.
So I dont find it daring and "honest" to ask "what if," I find it troubling and worrisome. Yes, MEN wrote the Bible... was there a reason for this? If there was, I find it very likely that it had much more significance than gender-restrictive patriarchical jerks hoping to fool humanity forever.
So are we addressing theological truths or societal issues? Lets be clear on the issues here...
9/20/06
Okay I too have written and rewritten this post at least 3 times... and I've decided to condense as well.
I find it scary to talk of "enlightenment" through embracing personal truths... this is not trust in Christ, this is Humanism.
I have had many personal struggles in my life the last year or so and I know that the ONLY thing that has kept me living in this body is accepting and holding fast to the fundamental truths that Christ and the Apostles teach us. Whether I accept and apply every single one of them every single day is one issue... whether I BELIEVE in every singe one of them is another.
Call me a hypocrite or an "immature and angry Christian" if you like, I'm bound to receive harsher words than that in this life, even from the church. Tell me I'm close-minded and in the dark even, I wont argue. Let God be my judge.
I'm not some fanatic traditionalist moron waving my King James Bible in your faces and telling you you're all going to hell for disagreeing with me...
and honestly I'm not trying to argue MY point with any of you... I'm asking if you believe Christ's.
[FYI - I'm addressing a lot more than feminism here... in fact that wasnt really in my mind at all when I wrote this]
9/23/06
honestly... I'm baffled.
In all of your arguments I find it disappointing that no one has acknowledged that we are humans, prone to fail and screw up every system of order God has given us.
Look in the old Testament (and this is a VERY general summary.) God created humans and gave them one rule. They broke it. Humans continued to live in sin (now murdering, committing, adultery, etc.). God freed them from oppression and gave them the 10 Commandments... they continued to live in sin and were unwilling to function without a king over them. So God gave them a king... they YET continued to live in sin... and etc. etc etc.
God created a partiarchical family for a reason. Wives submit to your husbands, husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church. Of course we arent going to do it perfectly. Of course some men are going to horde this control and power over women and abuse their position of authority. Of course women are going to try to take control when they have been told to submit.
If it were a perfect world, the family would function exactly as it should, exactly as the church should. Submission to God and respect of His appointed roles and lifestyles. But it's not a perfect world and many men HAVE relinquished their spiritual leadership and instead taken a position of control and manipulation. I find this issue to be just as much men's fault as it is women's. Men shouldn't be chauvenists, but not all of them are.
I find it highly unlikely that by pursuing truth from within yourself, and by accepting the utter "flexibility and subjectivity" of scripture, that we are going to get closer to an ideal society. I'm pretty sure that all of the horrible things in our world's history (slavery, the Holocaust, etc.) came from the very same ideas of passionately pursuing what YOU thought was truth.
Throw the Bible out the window as absolute truth and see what happens. In fact, look around you and see the world we live in and you'll see that we're very well on our way. Call that development and evolution and the betterment of society... but I find that as soon as we try to take things into our own hands... everything goes to hell.
10/14/06
When I said that "women should be women, and men should be men"... I was NEVER suggesting that by defining the difference between the genders meant that one was "better" than the other.
I would love to launch into a list of generalities about the difference strengths and weaknesses of each gender, but I dont want to get into an argument over the individual things (which are, I admit, subjective and different from person to person.) Without listing the specifics, I dont think anyone can argue with me that men are "better" or more capable at some things than women, as women are "better" or more capable at some things than men. This is not a bad thing - no, indeed, I wished to celebrate it!
I think that modern feminism, as an extreme response to past oppressive patriarchy and male chauvenism, has led to a diminishing of the differences between the genders. Women have become less comfortable with being purely feminine (whether physically or emotionally) and men are less sure of their masculinity. I'm not just talking about "bra burning lesbians" nor am I only talking of ifeminite men... I'm talking about every single person.
And I cant really respond to the discussion of "enlightenment" without getting really really angry so I'm not even going to address it.
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